Ep 43 - Swapping the Corporate Climb for Personal Wellness

with Wellnesstory Founders Natasa Kazmer and Jim Callaghan

Are you ready to take your health to new heights? In this episode of Health Activators, Dr. Alka Patel interviews two former airline executives who have discovered the secrets to high-flying health.

Natasa Kazmer and Jim Callaghan share their stories of burning out while climbing the corporate ladder and how they found a new path focused on wellness. Together they have written “Ready For Takeoff: A practical health guide for airline executives and their teams to get back on top of their game” which teaches you their tips for prioritising health even in a fast-paced career. They have made a simple framework for optimising your mindset, nutrition, movement and sleep so you can perform at your best without burning the candle at both ends.

To find out more about Wellnesstory, head to: https://wellnesstory.world/

To get a copy of Natasa and Jim’s book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ready-Takeoff-practical-airline-executives-ebook/dp/B0C5Y6PRT1

Use code ALKAPATEL at https://youthandearth.com/ for an exclusive discount!

For more information about this episode head to https://dralkapatel.com/podcast-health-hacktivators/

To read the blogs that accompany the show and for even more focused health hacks, head to https://dralkapatel.com/blog/

Do you know your LQ? Find out how high your lifestyle ranks. Take the LQ test to find out your score here: https://dralkapatel.com/lq-test/

Podcast Transcript

PLEASE NOTE these transcripts are auto-generated and may not be wholly accurate.

Dr Alka Patel (00:02.563)

So welcome, welcome Natasha and Jim. It is so exciting to have you both here today.

Natasa and Jim (00:07.158)

Thank you. We're delighted to be on your podcast. Thank you.

Dr Alka Patel (00:11.123)

Oh, and I get two for the one. So it's even more exciting, wonderful. So look, you're both from corporate backgrounds, aren't you? So Jim, you've got a background as a corporate lawyer and you were looking after big airlines, Ryanair and Etihad I've read. And Natasha, your background as co-founder of Whiz Air, which is incredible. So amazing work that you've both done in your corporate life. So maybe we can just start there and really get into the nitty gritty of.

corporate life and that world of sort of airline executives. I really want to get the low down on this because from the outside, I have to say the aviation industry and the airline executive industry and that space, well, it all really looks a lot like runways and romance to me. Runways and romance, this is all glamour associated with the travel industry. But what's the reality? Maybe start off, Natasha, tell us what is the reality?

Natasa and Jim (00:57.508)

That's the best. That's it, isn't it?

Natasa and Jim (01:08.642)

Well, the reality is I think that this is one of the really 24, 7-hour businesses out there. It never stops. It literally never stops. Even, you know, we were not flying in other gym or me, we're not cabin crew and pilot, but the reality is that especially once you get to a certain level, and for me being a co-founder of an airline, it really meant that I was on...

24 hours a day. And you can do it, especially when we were at the beginning of our, of Wizz Air, it was 2004, I was, I don't know how old I was, 31. Young, eager to work. I was addicted to success. We went from one success to another. So it keeps you going.

The adrenaline is high, but so is other hormones that dopamine and you get this amazing feeling that you are invincible and you can go without sleep. I was in communication, so it meant that I got phone calls in the middle of the night if something wasn't, you know, if we get a, I remember 40 minutes delays and I would get a phone call from markets that were not used to the whole low cost model. So

You know, you were on and then all the gym can tell you about all the, all the transactions that were late in the night. And you went out to celebrate and have a few drinks and a heavy meal at night. And then, you know, you had to go the next morning. So it was on, and you don't realize it until something happens. And in my, in my case, you know, my body said enough when we're trying to conceive. So I was trying to get pregnant.

And yeah, we couldn't. And then at the end of the, I think it was the fourth time that we tried, the doctor said, look, in your age, I was 41, 42 at that time, it's a numbers game and you have to realize that your body is stressed. And I'm like, I'm not stressed. I've been out of the corporate life. For that time, it was a few years already. I was living the life of...

Natasa and Jim (03:28.086)

wife of leisure, you know, I really didn't have any concern, but you know, to live a comfortable life with Jim. And he said, no, this is not how it works. You had a very full on career for 15 years, your body remembers. So all of your cells, including your X-Cells are stressed. That was kind of, oh wow, that's a shocker.

Dr Alka Patel (03:53.376)

Mm. Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (03:56.691)

I mean, now we're happy to have a healthy child, but that was kind of the first aha moment for me. Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (04:04.395)

Yeah. Gosh, you've raised so many very, very valid and very interesting points in what you've just talked about because there's something about, I mean, first of all, let's just not underestimate you are the co-founder of a massive airline. So, you know, that in itself comes with, as you say, a big level of responsibility. But what I've heard from you, I think is way beyond that. I've heard excitement and energy and passion and drive. So you're fueling yourself.

to do what you're doing and want to do, having that vision for this thing that you're creating. And I hear this with a lot of startups at whatever scale, whether you're creating something small and it's gonna grow big or you're starting big and it's gonna get even bigger. I hear this right at the beginning for so many, many people where it's their passion that really drives them. And when you ask people exactly like you, Natasha, stress, I'm not stressed, I'm loving what I'm doing, stress. And

Natasa and Jim (05:00.619)

That's it.

Dr Alka Patel (05:03.659)

I think it's really important for people to recognize this, right? Is that, let's just talk a little bit about the difference between passion and stress, and passion and drive, and passion and burnout, and how that all shows up. So Jim, what's your take on this, that kind of, that very, very fine line between passion and burnout?

Natasa and Jim (05:24.586)

Yeah, no, I think, you know, different experience, but very similar in a lot of ways. You know, I started my career in corporate law at a major law firm. So very large transactions, again, all the adrenaline working for big companies on exciting deals. And then was quite quickly when in-house, which is unusual to go in-house so quickly being in a law firm. But it started with Ryanair.

And so I was the first lawyer in Ryanair, quickly became also the director of government affairs and eventually the company secretary. So I was wearing three hats in a New York stock exchange listed company, one of the fastest growing airlines in the world. I think while I was there, nine years, we had a tenfold growth in passenger numbers, so massive growth.

And like Natasha, it's this passion project. Like you are just living this life. And the airline industry is quite unusual because you're moving people. It's such a crucial industry for moving people and goods around the world. Connecting people. The tourism, it's an economic engine.

And so you really do get into this, you know, this is my company, I'm building this company. Um, and, um, yeah, you, you are fueled by, by that passion and the adrenaline. And went to Etihad Airways, uh, I think, you know, after nine years in Ryan Air, you tend to get to the stage where it's kind of, it's, it's a very successful model because everything is done.

in the same way. It's a very defined business model. So you're kind of going through the steps each time, every market that you break into, and it's kind of going through, you know, core challenges and protests and, you know, passengers out protesting for low fares. And so it's, you know, it's great for a period of time, but kind of when I got the call from Etihad, it was like, wow, you know, this is... And it's changed.

Natasa and Jim (07:44.298)

This is a different end of the spectrum. Like this is first-class luxury airline, but with a lot of the same challenges. So fast growing airline in a very competitive market in the Middle East. So I thought, wow, this could be a new change, but the same kind of challenges. And by God, it was. And so you kind of get back into this hard charging 24-7, a lot of long haul travel.

Dr Alka Patel (08:10.617)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (08:14.094)

to the US and Europe. By that stage, my relationship with my ex-wife had been kind of gone to the stage where it was irreparable. So I was traveling back to visit my kids in Ireland. So that was a lot of traveling as well. And I really empathize with pilots and cabin crew because you really need to be very disciplined with your sleep in that area.

Dr Alka Patel (08:32.242)

Hmm

Dr Alka Patel (08:40.931)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (08:43.102)

Um, and then, you know, I got, I was seven years with Etihad Airways, and then got the call from Uber. Um, and we had already talked about moving back to Europe. So it was, it was kind of a way of getting back to closer to my kids and to Natasha's family. Um, but again, you know, it's, I think when you're, when you're in those kinds of stressful situations, sometimes you don't make the best decisions. And it was kind of like, yeah, this seems like a good idea, but

you know, it was kind of from one frying pan into a larger fire. And for me, Uber was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. I mean, it was totally insane kind of corporate culture. Funny, I think I was twice the age of most people in the company. I think I brought the average age of the company up by 10 or 12 years. And so yeah, it was just that was kind of the next level of

Dr Alka Patel (09:26.305)

Mm.

Dr Alka Patel (09:41.434)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (09:43.298)

And that was, yeah, that was an interesting experience. Yeah, I think that the whole idea is that, you know, you go through your career thinking that you can do more, you can do more. Are you looking for that next level? Next level. Next level career move excitement. And, you know, as you said, you basically, you fuel yourself through this excitement and this passion. But I think what's not happening for a lot of people, and it wasn't happening for us,

Dr Alka Patel (09:44.504)

Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (09:52.795)

Hmm.

Natasa and Jim (10:10.09)

is that we didn't fuel our bodies on a physical level and we didn't fuel our mind the way it needed to be fueled. And then for Jim, it came to a complete breakdown, like a burnout. And for me, it manifested in the inability to get pregnant. Luckily, we jumped that hurdle, but I was massively overweight and I was depressed. So I got...

Dr Alka Patel (10:13.544)

Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (10:17.499)

Thanks for watching!

Dr Alka Patel (10:36.699)

and I'll see you next time.

Natasa and Jim (10:37.358)

postpartum depression and I basically, I never came out of it until I decided that, okay, that was not the life that I wanted for us, for our family.

Dr Alka Patel (10:48.707)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think what's important to acknowledge from both of you sharing these stories is that kind of get up and go, that drive is I think we mustn't sort of put a negative on it because, you know, there's so much like as human beings, we're designed to evolve. We want to grow. We want to go, go. And I think we mustn't take away people's passion for wanting that sort of pace of life. And we do talk a lot about

Natasa and Jim (10:59.016)

and

Dr Alka Patel (11:17.251)

you know, the need to slow down and absolutely we do. But there's also this driver in all of us to drive ourselves and propel ourselves forward. But amongst all of that, there's a lot of external noise, but there's also this need for a little bit of inner silence so that you can tune into those signals. Because from what I'm hearing from both of you, like you didn't suddenly wake up one morning and become depressed, or you suddenly didn't step on the scales and see that your work wasn't where you wanted it to be, right? All those signals are just there.

Natasa and Jim (11:22.539)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (11:41.666)

No.

Dr Alka Patel (11:46.999)

and you just got to give yourself space to tune in. So, and it's incredible when you do that, we're talking about fuel, like most people's fuel, you probably notice the same, especially in the airline industry, is it's, you know, loads and loads of coffee, alcohol maybe after hours, if you're not getting on the plane, crash diets, pumping it out in the gym when you can. And that really isn't what sustains life. So what's been your experience? Because I guess I do want to actually move on to...

Natasa and Jim (11:48.022)

Mm-hmm.

Natasa and Jim (12:06.658)

Thank you.

Dr Alka Patel (12:15.387)

talking about your book, which I'm really, really excited that you've actually written this. It's called Ready to Launch, isn't it? And I love that title because it's specifically aimed at the industry. Ah, there we see it. I love it. Love it, love it. Because it is aimed at an industry where it is very needed, right? The airline industry, the aviation industry, where it is all about go, go. You said right at the beginning, it's a 24-7 industry. And I think we don't necessarily appreciate and think about...

what toll that takes on the people who are in that industry. So tell us about your book then, Ready to Launch. I guess I've got a good sense of why you've written it because of what you've described, but what is it that you're hoping will change for people in the industry as a result?

Natasa and Jim (13:00.702)

Yeah. So, I think the book is ready for takeoff. And it's actually an acronym for the model that we built based on the four drivers of health. So, mindful, your mindset, your nutrition, your movement and your sleep. So, being able to kind of optimize in each of those areas is super important for your overall health. And I think just getting back to your comment about stress,

You know, we absolutely agree that stress has a bad name these days. Everybody is stressed. You know, stress is bad for you. But you're absolutely right that as human beings, the reason why we have propelled ourselves to our current position, rightly or wrongly, is in large degree to do with a certain amount of stress. It's what fuels us. It's what drives us. I think the problem is you very well know.

Dr Alka Patel (13:53.563)

Isn't it?

Natasa and Jim (13:58.438)

is that when it gets to the point where it's chronic stress, where you never get into that parasympathetic mode, that that's when it becomes a problem. And I think we don't generally understand that as human beings, that there has to be that balance between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. And that was the big, I think, aha for us was that

Yes, you can have passion, you should have passion and fulfillment in your career. But if you push it too far without paying attention to those signals, those natural signals that we have, that's when it becomes a problem. And so really the, I think the impetus for us to write the book was that we started to figure this out for ourselves after years of kind of abuse of our bodies.

and minds is that it's not that difficult. It's not that complicated. Well, it can be difficult, but it's simple. You know, the whole framework is quite simple. It's mindset, nutrition, movement, and sleep. It's not easy to get all the relevant information and put them together so that it works as a framework.

Dr Alka Patel (15:15.918)

Mm.

Dr Alka Patel (15:23.022)

Right.

Natasa and Jim (15:25.758)

And we as human beings have a framework, but where in that framework you as a person are, you know, you need to figure it out for yourself, but the framework is pretty much the same for all of us.

Dr Alka Patel (15:32.303)

Bye.

Dr Alka Patel (15:38.115)

Mm, mm, no, for sure, for sure. It's very foundational, isn't it? So if you had to pick one of those areas, so you mentioned mindset, nutrition, movement, and sleep, which would you say would be the one to lead with? And I know everything is interconnected and related, but let's pick one. What is the primary driver to lead with?

Natasa and Jim (15:52.782)

to leave.

Natasa and Jim (16:00.394)

I think for us, and it's the one we came to last, I have to say, was the kind of missing piece is mindset. Because we tend to operate on autopilot, and that can be a good thing or a bad thing. But in general, I think in modern life, we make so many decisions based on autopilot, because there's so many decisions to make every day. And I think that, you know...

Once you break through that and you start to reconnect with your body, so you really start to realize that your body is not just a vehicle moving you through life, it's actually this amazingly complex machine. You start to get into this mindset of, well, if that's the case, and it is, then I need to do everything to take care of it. And I think that's what the major switch for us was. You know, it's not about...

you know, running around and, okay, I have to eat healthy. I have to, uh, I have to move more and I have to sleep more. No, it's, it's that overall mindset that health is foundational and it's not having to do anything. It's actually wanting to do everything to make sure that you take care of your body.

Dr Alka Patel (17:15.567)

Mm, yeah, absolutely. One chance, one life, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that even if we just let that sentence sink in for people, because often we move on from that sense that it is one life and one chance, so.

Natasa and Jim (17:32.458)

Well, in this life for sure. I mean, you know, let's try and fix it in this life. For us really the book is about if we could go back in time, if we could go back to ourselves 10, 15 years ago into our, when we were kind of at the peak of our careers is, you know, what, how,

Dr Alka Patel (17:33.903)

Yeah, who knows beyond, right?

Dr Alka Patel (17:40.66)

Yeah, right.

Dr Alka Patel (17:48.091)

Mmm.

Natasa and Jim (17:58.994)

what would we have done differently? What could we have told ourselves that would have enabled us to still be passionate and hard-driving executives, but actually, ironically, even more successful. Because with that, with health brings more performance, it improves your performance. And that's really the key that we wanted to drive for people.

Dr Alka Patel (18:08.127)

Mm.

Dr Alka Patel (18:14.167)

Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (18:25.476)

Mmm.

Natasa and Jim (18:25.674)

Because we all think about performance in our careers. We want to be performing well. But athletes know that in order to perform at their best, they have to be at the peak of their health. And so making that connection for executives that your health is foundational for life. If you have one body, one chance. In terms of your career, the best performance enhancer is health.

Dr Alka Patel (18:55.099)

Mm.

Natasa and Jim (18:56.354)

So it's almost like trying to, you know, the carrot and stick approach. The carrot is, look, you can actually perform better if you get healthy.

Dr Alka Patel (19:04.419)

Yeah, yeah, it's purposeful, isn't it? Absolutely. And you mentioned another word there as well, which is the word success. Again, like so many words, stress and burnout and performance and productivity, we use these words a lot. What is your definition of success?

Natasa and Jim (19:26.718)

Success. I think for me success is when I feel fulfilled, you know, that I don't have to pretend something that I'm not, that I'm... success is, yeah, it's ultimately happiness for me.

Dr Alka Patel (19:48.091)

What about you, Jim?

Natasa and Jim (19:50.166)

Yeah, I think very, very similarly. I think it's, it's about feeling comfortable in yourself, in your body, and in your soul. You know, getting to the point where it doesn't matter what you do in life. Being passionate and feeling like you're making a difference in the world for people. That's the other part. Like the internal one is really, you know, waking up and really feeling.

I'm happy who I am. And then for the, for the outer world, it's really to be able to make a change, make a better universe as Steve Jobs said once. And even if it's just, you know, one person at a time, you know, and we've been kind of, um, in, we're still in the startup phase of our business, but, you know, seeing the, the impact that we're making on people's life. Um, just by putting.

Dr Alka Patel (20:23.931)

Mmm.

Natasa and Jim (20:47.002)

such a complex area into context for them and into a framework to relatively easy to understand and follow framework and that already has an amazing health impact on people. I think that's success.

Dr Alka Patel (21:02.211)

Yeah, yeah. I love that. I ask this question to a lot of people and what I really love is that everybody has their own definition of success. And we have to embrace that because when we look at other people and go, wow, you look so successful, you seem so successful. That person's definition of success may be very different to what you see on the outside as well. So I think it's really important to channel in. And again, people listening, just ask yourself that question, what is success for me? And if that's something that I...

Natasa and Jim (21:08.779)

Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (21:30.499)

I'm striving for and gives me the ability to thrive, then I need to know what that looks like. Because often we're flying in the dark. Well, we've got so many flying analogies today. We're like, we're in the dark. And you're gonna need to put your lights on if you're gonna be traveling and flying in the dark, right? So you've got to know which direction you want to go in. And I think you've almost got to start with that end in mind. What does health look like for me? What does success look like for me?

Natasa and Jim (21:41.934)

There you go. Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (21:55.214)

Thanks. Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (21:58.699)

and not take on anybody else's definition, but just give yourself a pause to think about that for yourself. And also not impose what you're thinking on somebody else as well. And I love that you've talked about this framework because I think, again, going back to the sort of aviation industry, and I always used to say this for the health industry as well, is that we have a lot to learn from each other's industry. And the important thing I think from the aviation industry and the airlines is something about structure.

Natasa and Jim (22:22.72)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alka Patel (22:28.535)

And you said that word so many times, framework and structure, because you know what, if I'm going to get into your plane, I need to know that you've checklisted absolutely everything so that I am safe. And I think there's something a little bit about that in life as well, because again, we're also creatures of habits, aren't we? So the more habits we can take that give us that structure and autopilot, as you mentioned earlier as well.

Natasa and Jim (22:45.166)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alka Patel (22:54.187)

I think that goes a long way as well. We need variety, right? We need flexibility and to be agile and to be dynamic and just to be in the moment and not have everything planned, but there's a lot of scope to create those habits. So give us some tips, Petunia, have you got, give us three tips on how to recreate some of those habits that are important for your four pillars, which you said, a mindset, nutrition, movement and sleep. How do you do this?

Natasa and Jim (23:18.27)

I think the first one for me is start listening to your body and hear your body. I think it's easier said than done. But once you start to tune in into your internal dialogue about why you eat the things you eat or when you eat, why do you drink coffee at seven or eight in the morning?

Like, why is that? Is this a habit or is this a need? Why is it, you know, this kind of thing? I need to have, I need a coffee because, or why do you need that donut at three o'clock in the afternoon? Or, you know, why do you keep putting off going on a walk every day or doing your yoga routine or whatever it is for you? So really talking to yourself, I think that would be, for me, that would be the first step is to starting to become aware, because having gone through such a

intensive airline career, this is the one thing that I've never done. And I think that's why I paid the price I paid because I've never listened to my body. I think that's the other thing. Well, it will be very trivial here, but don't forget to hydrate and breathe. You know, we need air and we need hydration. Like keep, make a habit, make a habit of drinking water and breathing the right way. And there is so much.

many resources, but you know, one simple thing you count, you sit down, you relax your breath and you count how long it takes for you to take 10 breaths. And then you just replicate it. And it's the simplest, the most, the easiest way to, to focus on your breath and you bring yourself back into your body, into the moment. So that's a good balancing practice. And on a movement side, I would say just move.

Dr Alka Patel (24:59.535)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (25:03.806)

Yeah, I think, again, we totally underestimate our bodies. We love to watch athletes, these rare breed of people. We don't realize how amazing our own bodies are. And that, you know, okay, we may never be in the Olympics, but we can get pretty close. And for my own vantage point, and I think Natasha's as well.

Dr Alka Patel (25:19.218)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (25:32.526)

At almost 55, I have never been stronger or healthier, fitter, even in my twenties. And I grew up on a farm, so I was pretty fit back then, but I can lift more, I can run further, I can do things that I never thought would be possible after just three years of paying attention to the basic principles. And just, if people actually realized

Dr Alka Patel (25:55.831)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (26:01.886)

Yeah. That this is possible.

Dr Alka Patel (26:03.551)

Mm, mm, it's so powerful, isn't it? It's so, so powerful. Gosh, so much of what you've said is just resonating so much with me as well. And I know if it's resonating with me, it will be to people listening as well. But just picking up on the three of the things that you said there, both of you, is one was about that awareness and tuning in. And like we've already said, you know...

The world is noisy. So how do you tune into your signals? And you mentioned earlier the words, it's not easy or it's difficult or it's complicated or it's simple, like, you know, which one is it? And certainly for me, I think last year, I had this sense that everything around me was so noisy. And I took myself away, away from my family, away from everybody, had this sense I just needed to go and sit in the mountains. And I went for seven days on my own and I went into silence. I didn't speak.

A word came out of my mouth. And for someone who's a professional speaker, you can imagine what that's like doing podcasting all the time as well, right? But you know what? That level of awareness and tuning in, it comes when you take some time out to really listen because you said this already, your body's already asking you to hear it. So just find a way to listen. And I say this a lot, I go and do lots of interviews as well, but I'm not saying you've got to go and sit under a mountain for seven days. But have you tried...

seven minutes or have you tried even seven seconds, right? In seven seconds, your body's telling you something, which is so, so important. And I love this idea of asking yourself this question, why are you reaching for that donut? Why do you want, if you want the donut and you know why you're reaching for it, have it, right? Don't deny it. I use this little acronym as well, which is called Y. So whatever you choose to do, whether it's, go, I want to have that donut is just wait.

Natasa and Jim (27:39.362)

Go for it.

Natasa and Jim (27:50.478)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alka Patel (27:51.483)

ask yourself the question, that's the W. H is, am I hungry? Do I really want this donut because I'm hungry or is it trying to fulfill a different need? And if the answer is yes, I'm hungry and I want the donut, don't deny yourself that, right? But if you recognize actually I'm bored, I'm stressed, I'm lonely, then it's not the donut you need, it's something, right? Exactly.

Natasa and Jim (27:58.696)

Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (28:06.132)

Thank you.

Natasa and Jim (28:14.122)

I'm gonna help you. It's so powerful, isn't it? And I'm so...

Dr Alka Patel (28:16.575)

Exactly. It's incredible. And we can all do this in seven seconds. We don't need more time to become self-aware. And I love that you're talking about, you talked about hydration as well. And you think this was the easiest thing to do, right? It's just drink, we all know. But I've struggled with that big time. And there's one thing that I find really hard to do is drink water. Like, why can't I just drink up? I'll have gallons on my table. I'll carry stuff around. I'll watch the bubbles on the water.

and I still won't drink. So there's something about even though things in life might seem simple, there's something that we've got to do about creating back to what you were saying was what's the driver, what's your reason? Why do you want to hydrate even? Why do you even want to fuel your body with water and give it what it needs? You've got to tap into that as well, haven't you? So, so, and breath work as well. So it's interesting you brought that up as well, Jim, because I was out walking the dogs this morning.

Natasa and Jim (28:47.243)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alka Patel (29:08.283)

And whilst they were doing their thing and exploring their surroundings, I thought, I'm just going to zone in on my breathing here on this walk. And that's all I did. It was a 15 minute walk and all I did was just zone in on, you know, my breath in and my breath out. And I came back with a different level of energy. So we've all got this space in our day, haven't we, to do the things that help us to be better and different. But life gets really busy, I think, for people.

Natasa and Jim (29:16.481)

Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (29:35.991)

So I'd love your take on this idea of busyness as well, because it's worn as a bit of a badge of honor, isn't it? I'm so busy, I'm so busy, I'm so busy. So what do you think about that being busy?

Natasa and Jim (29:47.166)

I stopped saying that. I stopped saying that because that's creating stress in itself and that's creating the busyness that I don't need. And, you know, I'm 50 this year and I also change, I also notice how my body changes in this age of perimenopause and the hormonal changes that it goes through. And I just became much more honest with myself and with my environment that I don't need that busyness.

you know, and I actually stopped saying that. And, you know, we all know this, again, it's been said so many times, we make time for things that are really important to us. And I think the key is how to get through to yourself this message, because again, it's not we've seen so many people who know what to do, yet they never do it. And it's all back to your point about know why you're doing things you're doing. And it can be on different levels.

You really need that strong anchor that kind of, why do you want to be healthy? Like this is the question that we ask our clients is like, let's determine your why. Because you will fall off the wagon and you will have late nights and you will eat the stuff that you shouldn't or not move for a week, et cetera. But if you have the strong anchor, the why, then it keeps you on the road. And if you keep saying yourself that you're busy, that, that why is

is going to vanish. You're not going to see it, you're not going to hear it. So just stop. Yeah, just stop. That's also a great technique. Yeah, the stop technique. Just stop, take a breath, observe and proceed. Because this, you know, the busyness of our times, it's not something that is coming from the outside. We are creating it for us because it's trendy, because you know...

Dr Alka Patel (31:34.903)

Oh, I love that. Stop, take a breath, observe and proceed. Wonderful, love that. Okay, so give us just three tips then. Three things that you think are gonna be the most helpful thing for people listening that they can do immediately because people wanna do things that are gonna make a difference to their level of health.

Natasa and Jim (31:57.258)

I think for me, the first thing is prioritize your health. If you prioritize your health, everything else fits in around it. And, you know, getting back to this point about being busy and not having time. Um, one of the core principles of, of our framework is that you actually can create more time.

not in a physics sense, you can't break more time, but you can use your time more effectively if you're healthy. And in fact, just doing certain things a certain way, we talk about this principle of NEAT, which is non-exercise activity thermogenesis, big term, but it's basically we burn a certain amount of energy in our day just doing our normal day-to-day things.

Dr Alka Patel (32:46.619)

clicking on hair, moving on hair.

Natasa and Jim (32:48.542)

Exactly. If you can increase that, either the amount or the intensity of your need, then you don't have to spend hours in the gym. So simple things like parking the car as far away as you possibly can from the mall, a you will burn less of your brain cells trying to compete for the closer parking space. And you have to carry your groceries further back to the car. The chances are

you will actually either be time, the same amount of time, time neutral, or you will save time in the end. And you've also increased your amount of movement, increased your health. So I think just thinking differently about what it means to be healthy, again, getting back to the mindset. So let's give three advice, three tips. What would that be? Number one.

Dr Alka Patel (33:23.343)

Mm. Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (33:30.995)

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Natasa and Jim (33:43.682)

prioritize your health? Well, from a practical perspective, what do we do? Increase your daily movement. What in a natural way? Take the stairs, park the car for the way, walk if you can. The other thing, it's not necessarily in the order of priorities, but the second thing would be drink water, hydrate and breathe.

Dr Alka Patel (34:06.744)

Yeah.

Thank you.

Natasa and Jim (34:09.578)

You know, you're just repeating the advice that you've already used. But that's the whole thing. You know, it's not that complicated for us. Like if there are only three things that if you're super busy and you know, you don't have time, you're busy like that you just discussed. What are the three things that don't require extra time? It just you guys. You're back. Big bang for your book. Breathe, because breathing will bring you into the moment. Drink because it's good for your body, for your brains, for everything. And move with the need.

Dr Alka Patel (34:23.798)

Mm.

Dr Alka Patel (34:29.624)

Yeah.

Dr Alka Patel (34:39.508)

and move. Yeah. I'll give you three each. Go on, Jim. You can have your one.

Natasa and Jim (34:39.682)

Can we just add two more? Yes, okay. So, you know, eat real food for God's sake. I mean, it's not easy to do in today's world because what the hell is real food anymore? And then sleep. The corporate world has demonized sleep for years. It's the, you know, it's efficiency, you know, limit your sleep, you know, you're...

You're weak if you have to sleep seven to eight hours. I've been there and you are massively inefficient and suboptimal in your performance if you're not getting enough sleep. You don't realize it because you think, oh, I'm busy, I'm stressed. You are massively suboptimal if you are not getting good and sufficient sleep. So quantity and quality of sleep are absolutely foundational.

Dr Alka Patel (35:32.028)

Yeah, yeah.

Natasa and Jim (35:33.506)

There's some advanced techniques, but we keep it for the readers of the book. You know, if you want to learn more, read the book.

Dr Alka Patel (35:37.431)

Oh yes, yes. So tell us where can we find the book if people want to take a dive in? And I just want to clarify with the book that although it's with the airline industry and executives in mind, this applies to everybody, right? Yeah.

Natasa and Jim (35:50.67)

For sure. And the really cool thing is that the amount of interest in the book from people outside the industry is much greater than people in the industry. We have a lot of work to do in the industry.

Dr Alka Patel (36:03.287)

Oh yes. So where can we find the book? How can listeners get a hold of it?

Natasa and Jim (36:08.294)

It's on Amazon. Yeah, Barnes and Nobles and Watterson's.

Dr Alka Patel (36:13.135)

Perfect. Perfect, perfect. Okay, I will pop the links to that into the show notes. And what about reaching out to you guys? What's the best way to connect with you?

Natasa and Jim (36:23.982)

On wellnessstory.world, if you just click on the contact us page, you can send us an email. Wellness Story is W-E-L-L-N-E-S-T-O-R-Y.world. Yeah, you can also pop us an email at Natasha, to natasha at wellnessstory.world and Jim at wellnessstory.world. So it's. We're easy to find.

Dr Alka Patel (36:50.737)

of that. And before we go, tell me about how you came up with the name wellness story because it's lovely.

Natasa and Jim (36:58.57)

Well, because my background is in communications and I worked very closely on the branding of Wizz Air, you know, so I was a little bit obsessed with this whole topic of branding and writing. So we actually did a search with it. We hired some creatives and we did the brainstorming on names and it was one of, I don't know, 47 or how many names they came up with. And for us, it had to...

You know, it had to say what we do. It's about wellness, it's about wellness, wellbeing, and it's quite difficult because this word is used in so many different ways, but we thought that, or we felt that would represent the most what we're doing, and it's story because everybody has their own journey, their own stories, and as you said before, you know, the foundations are,

Dr Alka Patel (37:38.241)

Mm-hmm.

Natasa and Jim (37:56.246)

the same for everybody. But then there's so many things that are different about each of us individuals, that we all have an individual approach. But the underlying foundation, it's critical to it's same and it's critical to understand and build.

Dr Alka Patel (38:11.547)

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Well, thank you both. Look, if you're ready to write the pages of your own story, for sure, then go and check out Natasha and Jim at Wellness Story and grab their book as well, because there's sounds from what they've said already today that there's so much wisdom and experience in what you're sharing. So I will certainly put those links out for people to go grab a copy as well. Thank you so much. It's been a lovely, lovely conversation.

Natasa and Jim (38:39.85)

Thank you so much, Aga. It's been fun. We really appreciate it. Thank you.